Is Mecca really the center of religion and trade in the ancient Arab world? Or a lie?
#41
We established the below
http://www.brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=1133.0

First, the confirmed date of the construction of the city of Mecca is sometime after the 4th century A.D.

Abu Karb Asa'd was the first to consecrate the Kaabah, which reveals that he was the builder of the Kaabah. He did this during his reign in Yemen, which was between 410 and 435 A.D.

The two Rukuns, or stones, which were the main elements of worship in the temple, were of Yemeni origin.

The date on which the Black Stone first appeared in Mecca was at the time of Mohammed's grandfather, sometime between 495 and 520 A.D.

Though Islamic tradition was aware of these facts, people invented unreliable stories to fill the historical gaps.
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#42
5-11-2018 11:00 AM
Obamao said:
Look at the map and tell me if Petra or Mecca is more likely to be a natural center of trade and religion in the Ancient Arab World?
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#43
What the Kabaa was like during the 4th century?.

Surrounded by 360 idols built by Yemenis


"Before Muhammad appeared, the Kaaba was surrounded by 360 idols, and every Arab house had its god. Arabs also believed in jinn (subtle beings), and some vague divinity with many offspring. Among the major deities of the pre-Islamic era were al-Lat ("The Goddess"), worshipped in the shape of a square stone; al-Uzzah ("The Mighty"), a goddess identified with the morning star and worshipped as a thigh-bone- shaped slab of granite between al-Taid and Mecca; Manat, the goddess of destiny, worshipped as a black stone on the road between Mecca and Medina; and the moon god, Hubal, whose worship was connected with the Black Stone of Kaaba.”

http://www.adishakti.org/_/before_muhamm..._kaaba.htm


Was "Allah" known before Muhammad?


Scholar's findings.

https://www.biblebelievers.org.au/moongod.htm

"Allah is found . . . in Arabic inscriptions prior to Islam" (Encyclopedia Britannica, I:643)

"The Arabs, before the time of Mohammed, accepted and worshipped, after a fashion, a supreme god called allah" (Encyclopedia of Islam, eds. Houtsma, Arnold, Basset, Hartman; Leiden: E.J.Brill, 1913, I:302)

"Allah was known to the pre-Islamic Arabs; he was one of the Meccan deities" (Encyclopedia of Islam, ed. Gibb, I:406)
"Ilah . . . appears in pre-Islamic poetry . . . By frequency of usage, al-ilah was contracted to allah, frequently attested to in pre-Islamic poetry"(Encyclopedia of Islam, eds. Lewis, Menage, Pellat, Schacht; Leiden: E.J.Brill, 1971, III:1093)

"The name Allah goes back before Muhammed" (Encyclopedia of World Mythology and Legend, "The Facts on File", ed. Anthony Mercatante, New York, 1983, I:41)

The origin of this (Allah) goes back to pre-mus.lim times. Allah is not a common name meaning "God" (or a "god"), and the mus.lim must use another word or form if he wishes to indicate any other than his own peculiar deity" (Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics, ed. James Hastings, Edinburgh: T & T Clark, 1908, I:326)

Scholar Henry Preserved Smith of Harvard University stated:
"Allah was already known by name to the Arabs" (The Bible and Islam: or, the Influence of the Old and New Testament on the Religion of Mohammed, New York: Charles Scribner's Sons, 1897, p.102)
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#44
16-11-2018 12:35 PM
Obamao said:
What the Kabaa was like during the 4th century?.

Surrounded by 360 idols built by Yemenis


"Before Muhammad appeared, the Kaaba was surrounded by 360 idols, and every Arab house had its god. Arabs also believed in jinn (subtle beings), and some vague divinity with many offspring. Among the major deities of the pre-Islamic era were al-Lat ("The Goddess"), worshipped in the shape of a square stone; al-Uzzah ("The Mighty"), a goddess identified with the morning star and worshipped as a thigh-bone- shaped slab of granite between al-Taid and Mecca; Manat, the goddess of destiny, worshipped as a black stone on the road between Mecca and Medina; and the moon god, Hubal, whose worship was connected with the Black Stone of Kaaba.”

http://www.adishakti.org/_/before_muhamm..._kaaba.htm


Was "Allah" known before Muhammad?


Scholar's findings.

https://www.biblebelievers.org.au/moongod.htm

"Allah is found . . . in Arabic inscriptions prior to Islam" (Encyclopedia Britannica, I:643)

"The Arabs, before the time of Mohammed, accepted and worshipped, after a fashion, a supreme god called allah" (Encyclopedia of Islam, eds. Houtsma, Arnold, Basset, Hartman; Leiden: E.J.Brill, 1913, I:302)

"Allah was known to the pre-Islamic Arabs; he was one of the Meccan deities" (Encyclopedia of Islam, ed. Gibb, I:406)
"Ilah . . . appears in pre-Islamic poetry . . . By frequency of usage, al-ilah was contracted to allah, frequently attested to in pre-Islamic poetry"(Encyclopedia of Islam, eds. Lewis, Menage, Pellat, Schacht; Leiden: E.J.Brill, 1971, III:1093)

"The name Allah goes back before Muhammed" (Encyclopedia of World Mythology and Legend, "The Facts on File", ed. Anthony Mercatante, New York, 1983, I:41)

The origin of this (Allah) goes back to pre-mus.lim times. Allah is not a common name meaning "God" (or a "god"), and the mus.lim must use another word or form if he wishes to indicate any other than his own peculiar deity" (Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics, ed. James Hastings, Edinburgh: T & T Clark, 1908, I:326)

Scholar Henry Preserved Smith of Harvard University stated:
"Allah was already known by name to the Arabs" (The Bible and Islam: or, the Influence of the Old and New Testament on the Religion of Mohammed, New York: Charles Scribner's Sons, 1897, p.102)

walaneh! Big Grin
Bro, next Haji go lah! thumbs upWinking
If not enter tiger lare how to get tiger cubs leh? Thinking
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#45
The 3 Arabian goddesses.

http://www.thaliatook.com/AMGG/arabtriple.php

The sword, the cat and the moon.

Al-Uzza.

Al-Uzza, "the Strong One", was one of the most venerated Arab Deities, and the Goddess of the morning and evening star, Venus. She had a temple at Petra, and may well have been the patron Goddess of that city. She has much in common with Ishtar and Astarte as Morning and Evening Star Goddesses—they all have aspects of both Love and War Goddess, and big cats were sacred to Them. She is shown here armed as a bellatrix, standing before an acacia tree, with a caracal, or desert lynx. She was associated by the Greeks with their Aphrodite Urania, "Heavenly Aphrodite"

Al-Lat, whose name is a contraction of al-Illahat, "the Goddess", is mentioned by Herodotus as Alilat, whom he identifies with Aphrodite. Her symbol is the crescent moon (sometimes shown with the sun disk resting in its crescent), and the gold necklace She wears is from a pendant identified to Her. As a Fertility-Goddess She bears a sheaf of wheat; and in Her hand She holds a small lump of frankincense, as Her emblem is found carved on many incense-holders.

Manat or Manawayat derives Her name from Arabic maniya, "fate, destruction, doom, death", or menata, "part, portion, that which is alloted". She is a very ancient Deity and Her cult may precede both Al-Uzza's and Al-Lat's. Her cult was widespread, though She was particularly worshipped as a black stone at Quidaid, near Mecca. She is connected with the great pilgrimage, as Her sanctuary was the starting point for several tribes. She is known from Nabatean inscriptions, and tombs were placed under Her protection, asking Her to curse violators. She is accordingly a Goddess of Death, and Maniya (Death personified) is mentioned in poetry as actively bringing a person to his or her grave, holding out the cup of death. She is shown as an old woman with a cup, and the symbols at the bottom of Her gown spell Her name in Sabaic (which does not use vowels and is written right to left), M-n-t. The waning moon is shown over Her head as the symbol of the Crone-Goddess of Death.

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#46
Good question

How can we say Muhammad was born in Mecca when Mecca was not in any map until 700s?


More questions

https://www.quora.com/How-can-we-say-Muh...until-700s

There is a lot of strange things surrounding the timeline:

The Qur’an is written in a new language, Arabic with a number of words from Syriac-Aramaic, Persian and Greek.
in the Qur’an, Moses is mentioned 136 times, Jesus 24 times and the word Mohammad is used just 4 times

Mohammad means “chosen one”. No one would give such a name to their child, it looks more like a title just like Christ=Messiah is a title and not Jesus (Yehoshua)’s surname. No one had this name before so it is clearly a title.

Mecca was not on the global trade routes, unlike Petra.

The Islamic empire conquered highly literate areas that had been minting coins for centuries if not millennia yet

There is no mention of Mohammed, Qur'an or the first four Caliphs in the first 100 years, not in any mention by the conquered people.

The coins used in the first century of the Islamic Empire are actually coins with the Persian Shah Khushro II’s face and a fire temple and a small inscription to Allah.

For the first decades of time, Muslims bowed towards Jerusalem, then briefly towards Petra and finally to Mecca.

The Qur’an was not written down during the lifetime of Mohammed but supposedly collected by the Caliph Uthman 30 years after Mohammad alleged death. This was collected from various peoples memories. the caliph burnt all other versions of the Quran.

It seems clear that the Quran is a commentary on the Bible by a Jewish-Christian hybrid sext called the Ebionites. That is why it doesn't have full stories. It was originally written in Aramaic or Syriac (a child of Aramaic).
the Mohammad or chosen one referred to seems to be the Ebionite version of Jesus.

the Persians conquered Jerusalem and Egypt in 614 with their Arab allies the Lakhmids.

it seems clear they were overthrown by their Arab allies.

Once overthrown the aim seems to have been to make the religion more Arab centric hence the creation of an Arab prophet.

And the centre of prayer moves from Jerusalem to Petra and finally to Mecca.

So the simple answer is that Mecca was not a trading spot but the entire story was created at a later date.

https://www.quora.com/How-can-we-say-Muh...until-700s

Bye
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#47
Locusts have come.
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#48
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